Interview with Chris Eymann

13 Sep Interview with Chris Eymann

Chris Eymann Shares How He’s Sold Over 8000 Homes and Lent Over One Billion Dollars!

Video Replay of Interview with Chris Eymann

Podcast Replay of Interview with Chris Eymann

Show Notes:
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00:00:00 Hey everybody, thank you for joining us for today’s episode of real estate disruptors. Today we’ve got the legendary Chris Eymann with sell wholesale houses and he’s here to share how his company has moved over 8,000 properties and lent over half a billion dollars in private lending. If this your first time tuning in, I’m Steve Trang, broker, owner of Stunning Homes Realty, cofounder of the fast app, the only app you’ll need for wholesaling. And I help people become real estate entrepreneurs. If you’re excited for today’s show, please give me some waves or some thumbs up. And before we get started, I started this show because I want to get back to our community. Uh, I definitely had some struggles and very beginning of my career and I’m sure you faced some struggles. You’re a very long career. Uh, and so we want a shortcut that struggle for as many young leaders as possible. I don’t charge a dime for this show. I don’t make any money doing this. So here’s all I ask. This is all it costs for you to listen to this show. If you get value, please tell a friend. Either share this episode right now, tiger from below, or telling your best takeaway from this show later on. That way we can all grow together. Uh, don’t forget that this is a live show. So please post your questions for Chris to answer. Are you ready? Ready. Let’s go. All right. What got you into real estate?

00:01:11 I’m actually was a tech guy, worked for Phillips Petroleum, couple other companies and during the tech downturn got laid off twice in the same year. Um, that lovely conference room call where it’s. Hey Chris in the conference room, here’s your check through an extra couple of weeks on there. And that was it. That was what year? It was 98, 99. And uh, I jumped into that was right around the.com bus. Okay. And then, uh, jumped into the two week class for real estate, um, drove around a buyer for three weeks and had her call me on week four and said, oh, I just called off a sign and that agent got me a house. And uh, I went down the foreclosure steps, been going ever since.

00:01:56 So it wasn’t that long from when you were licensed to screw it? Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much a couple of months, couple of months work my buyer and the Africa. Okay. Uh, so, uh, after that. So you went straight into auction? Yep. Dot Auction. So then did you do wholesale first or did you private lending first?

00:02:14 No, so I started buying at the auction steps. I just buying from my own account, Rehab and I’m selling them. Um, but you know, networking got me, we’re watching football, I’m telling you that I’m buying the auctions and this is before anybody’s buying at the auctions, right? This is, yeah, 99. So I’m literally it, it didn’t take like six to eight months by the time I’m buying one, you know, calling everybody up or actually they’re calling me and they’re like, what’d you buy today? And I’m like about one, two, three main street. I bought it for 100 grand. You can have for 100 to bring the two grand in cash. But that was, that was pretty much the wholesale and I was wholesaling within a year of, you know, of starting in real estate. Okay. So this is 1999 slash 2000. Yeah. Basically. Okay. So you’re wholesaling and what was the process?

00:03:06 What was that journey like from, you know, baking that 2000 on a deal to what mean your next, what was the next junction? Um, so I, uh, I was just kinda like an independent. Um, then I joined a group. I’m buying foreclosures. There were three of us in that group. Uh, and no, there was two main groups down at the truck, at the trustee sales, Andy Who’s in my coaching business with me. What was one of the groups? And then you know, me and a couple of other guys are in the other group and just graduate in each other every day for six years. So you guys were doing buying auction courthouse steps for six years and we’re just wholesaling right? This is before any bid services. This is just buy on your own account, mark it up, three grand, five grand, 20 grand, whatever you can get away with.

00:04:00 Um, and wholesale, who are you wholesaling it to you? I’m just, you know, buyers. Back then it wasn’t nice text blasts, it was just all email blast. Um, you know, I was back then email blast would work. Email blasts was the only way to distribute and then you could, you know, do some cold calling and people called you. Um, but there wasn’t even texting you back then. Right? It’s just email blast. Okay. And then what got you into private money lending? Um, so in about 2003, I met a couple guys that had a couple of truckloads of money and uh, there they came to me and like, hey, I was borrowing hard money myself and they’re like, Hey, you know, borrow my money and instead of paying another guy’s just borrow my money and then you can lend it out and make the spread. Um, so I started doing that.

00:04:51 No three, I’m the guy that I was borrowing hard money from a big piece of his business going away. Next thing I know, um, we had a $25,000,000 line of credit with wells fargo that went to $100,000,000. Oh, nice. Probably had $100,000,000 line by. Oh, five I think. Okay. So money wasn’t taught yet at that time? Yeah, they’re given out $100,000,000 line of credit. Yeah. Now that’s great. That sounds awesome. So you would, he would borrow from wells, you lend it to you and he will make that spread. Oh, I was also on the wells line. So you’re also in the Wellesley. Yeah. Also signed that personal guarantee that went along. Okay. So then you guys are making the spread between what you guys are brought from wells solar at prime plus two. And we are lending at 18. This was before everybody was in hard money, right? Yeah. Yeah. 18 was. I still remember the first time I was at an event back in 2007. Yeah. I was like 18 percent, right. What’s going on here? Plus the thousand dollar fee, what? Who would agree to this? Now I know a lot of people agree to it, right? Uh, okay. So you got into the private lending. What were some of your early

00:05:58 struggles then on the prime? On the private lending side,

00:06:01 there wasn’t a lot of early struggles. This is, this is way before everybody’s in the business. Everybody’s in the money business, in the wholesale business. I mean everybody now it’s then it was just two groups and we can, we basically controlled the whole city. Oh really? And as far as hard money lenders, there were, there were more hard money lenders. There’s probably three or four, but um, I mean our portfolio is 80 million bucks. Wow. So. And loans are turning over, so I mean it’s a, you said put $500, million. I don’t actually know. We’re turning over $80,000,000 every 100. Twenty to 130 days. Wow. For years. So yeah. I mean do the math on that. That’s $240,000,000 a year.

00:06:40 Yeah. So you’re probably over a billion then lent in your career. I just didn’t want to. Okay. So, um, then the recession occurred, right? So you started during the tech bust, there was 9:11 you say like, that really affects you so much and then you went through and had this great growth that we’re like similar to what we’re experiencing today. And then the recession hit

00:07:04 right? What weekly wasn’t a recession? It was the secondary money are the secondary market quit buying paper. So like she can’t sell paper, you can’t read, originate a loan and if you’re a hard money lender and there’s no recourse, they just start handing back the keys.

00:07:21 Right? Yeah. So, but you were still borrowing, you know, whatever, the hundred million dollar line of credit where you, was that close to you or would that still maintain open the whole time? Uh,

00:07:30 no. So it, um, we would, we would borrow $100,000 from, we’d lend $100,000 welded by 90 percent of that. And then you have these covenants or rules that you have to follow. I see. But as your foreclosure rate grows, because you know, if the secondary market can’t buy paper, you’re a fix and flipper that has a hard money loan, but the guy buying your house can’t get along, so no one can sell a house. Yeah, right. So, you know, wells Fargo, as soon as you get outside the rules, they just lock your bank account now and you got no money. So then what did you do in that situation? Oh, you just a, we came asset manager, we foreclosed on quite a bit of houses. Um, you know, dealt with them I think, I think 2007, eight and nine were dealt with, you know, doing a lot of that.

00:08:25 Um, and then I went out. So taking over property is that you guys lead time for a fix and flip guys. Right. Okay. So did a lot of that. That wasn’t actually my position in the company. Um, and then I started another venture and you know, went back at it. So it was that other venture. Oh, sell wholesale houses. Okay. So that’s when he became another wholesaling entity. So there was two of those. Buy Easy foreclosures and then what was the other one that’s so sell wholesale houses. So when the our group, when the downturn hit, we just kind of all went our own different

00:08:56 ways. Right. And then so sell wholesale houses pretty much started in oh seven. Oh eight. And then from there. And as you buy yourself A. I have my sisters, my partner, his sister, his sister Kim mud. Okay. She’s the one because I noticed she’s, she’s listed if you have your properties. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a broker. Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. All right. Okay. So you had to shift your business in that time. He became an asset manager. Started unfortunately to take over properties. But you were, you were still on the hook, right? W with personal guarantee. Personal guarantee. Yeah. I lost everything. He lost everything. Yeah. So you were one of the guys and like, yeah, these guys were losing their properties, but you also losing your properties. My tax return said negative four point 2 million bucks. That’s all. Just that explains it a four point two and we’re able to carry that loss forward at least.

00:09:47 Oh yes, so there’s a win there. There’s some small wins, small wins. Okay. So knowing what you know today, what will you do differently? Um, if you’re starting over, like right now? No personal guarantees, no personal guarantees. Right. Okay. Um, and then obviously, you know, wash the market. Um, yeah, I was a little bit leveraged. I was having fun, I was making a lot of money, right. And right. And I had made a lifestyle that was off making a lot of money. I make pretty good money and my lifestyle is almost all cash. Yeah. So you a little bit less leveraged today than you were back then? Yes. Okay. Uh, so private lending is extremely competitive in Phoenix today. I actually met with a lender today and she shared with me that they’re in multiple states, but she enjoys North Carolina the most because they are, you can charge two points and get 14.

00:10:41 Right. It’s like, wow. Yeah. You can’t get away with that here. No. So how do you set yourself apart in Phoenix with private lending? You know, I don’t, I just keep building the network and everybody’s going to get their piece of the Pie. Yeah. I’m, I’m not going to chase down rates for business. Um, you know, I don’t have bank lines so I don’t have any personal guarantees and I’m not going down that road again. So. And I’m also not going to chase down lowering my down payment and risking it because it’s real estate cycles, right? Yeah, it does. I’ve been through the Rodeo one time. I’m not going through it again. Right. So, um, yeah, if, uh, if my portfolio shrinks, but, but I got a really great portfolio. I’m great with that. I got no problems. So if you don’t mind sharing, like what is like, you know, I got this great deal today, Chris, I’ve got a 70 percent of market value. I bring it to you. What am I borrowing it at? I’m generally 15 to 20 percent down. I stretched below that every now and then if you’re getting a really good deal, but generally it’s, you know, because if you don’t have any, you know, I saw, I think I saw a five percent down recently. I’ve definitely seen 10 a lot. If you have the

00:11:54 ability to just walk away, just walk away. Yeah, I mean it’s no recourse state. There is no recourse now there’s, you just walk away, right. So, um, you know, and I, I’ve seen a little bit of a, the first part of people trying to get away with that down payment. This buddy. So onto this buddy, you know, I really, I caught one of those four days ago this base on this buddy, you know, assignment fee of 15 grand and their down payments. 15 grand, you know. I see. Okay. And what are your, what are your rates right now on the 15 percent? Ten percent. Fifteen percent down is 14 percent. Twenty percent down as twelfth. Okay. So that’s not, it’s not bad. Yeah. Okay. So, but what will you tell someone you know, they’re like, Hey Chris, I’m looking at you. I’m looking to option B, I’m looking after and see, and I, I say, why should I go with you?

00:12:42 What do you say? I’m just saying we’ve been in the business a long time. Um, we’re pretty reliable. I’m, but I won’t chase down rate if. I mean I trust me. I get people like, Hey, they’ll do 11. I’m like, great, go get it. Yeah, I appreciate coming back to me next time when they run out of money or, or something doesn’t work. I get or they’ll find on time. Yeah. It’s all economics, right? And I get it. Um, people need to make money and I’m not willing to chase down rate or down payment to, you know, try to get business. Right. And then same question, wholesaling. Yeah. Again, extremely competitive. If we’re not the most competitive wholesale market, I don’t know what it is. Everybody’s a wholesale on this market. Yeah, everyone’s a wholesale like today. So what sets you apart a competitively for wholesaling?

00:13:31 Why should someone else out with you or. Well, I’m, once again, I’m not a, I’m not a wholesaler that just is trying to assign every deal right? I got a $30,000,000 hard money company that I control, so if I need to fund, I can fund, right? We’ll all try to wholesale. I make mistakes. I buy too expensive every now I’m not perfect, but at least I have the cash to pay for it. When the time comes, other wholesalers don’t have the cash to pay for it. So, um, I mean, that’s the benefit of working with me. If I say I’m buying it, I’m buying it. So, so there’s no like, oh man, we can’t perform. Yeah, no, I’m in, I’m, I made mistakes. I uh, I did a deal that I bought and sometimes I mean to be competitive and beat people to the house.

00:14:19 I buy pictures 95 percent of the time. I don’t, I don’t get the walkthrough. So, uh, you know, I walked into a house that someone who sold me and I walked in through the front door and I’m just like, man. And I knew the second I walked in the House that I was losing money and I had a $5,000 earnest money. I just called my buddy and I’m like, Hey, can I just walk from the five grand, just go sell to somebody else, and that was, this is two weeks for clothes and he’s like, come on, it’s old guy. He’s already. And I’m just like, all right. I knew that I was losing more than five grand. I close on the house. I think I lost 10 or 11, but I mean I could have just walked from the earnest money. You could have saved myself five or six grand.

00:15:02 Yeah. What did you see when you walked in that you knew you were this money on that deal? It was a tri level so that you walked in the house, you walk down the right stairs, four steps into the living room and errors up into the dining room with the kitchen. Yeah. Now those try levels. The second I walked through the door, I’m like, all right. So, um, what does a good referral look like to you? I mean, anybody that get agents that, you know, don’t know all the other wholesalers in town. So hey, this guy buys houses. Um, I think I just got one in Old Town Scottsdale for 2:55, which you don’t see very often. No you don’t. So, um, and that was just an agent calling me saying, Hey, this guy wants to sell an old town, Scottsdale. I came across at 2:55. I’m like, yeah, grab it.

00:15:52 Right. Yeah. So someone that has a deal tied up and doesn’t know what to do with it or an agent that, you know, you walk in and they got 12 dogs or you know, they’ve never thrown one thing away for the 20 years I’ve lived there. Right. You know, all those agents that don’t have the referral. Once it gets to the wholesale group, I mean the price is just get lifted and lifted. Lifted. Right. It’s nuts. Yeah. Yeah. By the time you get to you, if someone, if there’s been a wholesaler or two along the way. Yeah, there’s nothing left, right? Yeah. Okay. Um, what do you attribute your success to you? I mean, you’ve been doing this for almost 20 years now. Like how have you had the staying power to still be in the, in the business? I mean, there’s so much change constantly.

00:16:39 How have you been able to stay on top of it? Well, it’s funny as I’m not as good as all the younger people in the business with social media and all that. Actually it was kind of funny. I read an email that said I want to make sure that the person coming to coffee is legit because I don’t want to waste my time. My, uh, I can’t attribute most of my successes if someone asks me to coffee. It’s five minutes. It’s 10 minutes. Yeah. I went to coffee with almost every verse when you called me and said, hey, be on my show. Would I say? Yeah. And how long have you taken me to say yes? Not Very Long. Yeah. So I mean, I don’t, I’ve gone title companies. I mean I did a foreclosure lunch and learns for realty executives I think every month for three or four years. Oh really? I just cycle their offices, their 16th street office there. Tempe office, you know, I did. I think, I dunno how many foreclosure classes I gave for fidelity national title, right? It’s just, but you get in front of 50, 60 people and you get to build your network and I don’t, I mean everybody these days bills it all on social media, right? I built it actually by getting cards.

00:17:50 So consistency and staying in front of people all the time. So, um, you talked about, uh, the, the courses. So that was actually one of my questions, how you intentionally stay in front of people because I heard a great story about you, right? We, we talked about earlier. So how do you consistently stay in front of people?

00:18:07 Um, you know, I just try to follow up. I’m a busy guy but I try to answer text messages, emails, probably my weakest link. But yeah, you know, um, and like I said, I’m in front of people right now on your show. I’m in front of him. I hit every happy hour that I get invited to. And you, and I’m not really a talkative person if you go see me in a happier, I sit in the corner,

00:18:29 but it’s like, who’s the tall guy? Right, right. So, because you were there. Yeah, I’m there. You’re available. Uh, and then, you know, uh, we first met through a fidelity mastermind, right. It’s been disbanded since, but that was a cool opportunity because I was like, oh, hey, that’s Chris. That’s, that’s the guy that sends out those emails with those discounted properties. Right, right. So definitely you’re, you’re, you’re putting yourself out there, making stuff available. Uh, so what is your organization look like today?

00:18:56 We still run a bid service. Um, are you guys still doing bis services? Yeah, we still do bid services. Know that UCF panel Maricopa, you have a pie and a pima. So we still do that. Obviously there’s not a lot of volume, but there’s still opportunities. Yeah. So opportunities and you know, we’re there. We’re staying in front of that group of people. Um, I, uh, we still wholesale, um, and then, you know, we do our hard money, but literally it’s a two assistants, a bookkeeper. Um, couple of bitters and a driver and me and my partners and so it’s my sister is my partner on paper, but tim and Kim mud or they’re married, been married for 25 years or 26 years.

00:19:44 There’s like four kids. Okay. So then going back to the auction, let’s say I buy a property at the courthouse steps, you know, Chris, I liked this property, I want to bid on it. Then obviously you’ll do the hard money loan on it on this as well. So we do the hard money for the auctions in the, you know, all the wholesale properties. Okay, cool. So that’s like a one stop shop, right? I don’t really need much else than that. I guess I need the 10,000 to put down. So we do the bid service and we do. We’d been with her own money. So you don’t have to, you don’t need the $10,000. Okay. Well that’s good. That’s good. All right. Um, so we talked about um, you know, you’re, you’re wholesaling, how many properties are you wholesaling? I’m on right now probably 20. 20. Okay. And how do you source your deals?

00:20:28 Um, we actually were, we got an in house so we do some cold calling and some letters. And then, you know, like you heard the story, like I could follow up with just the smaller wholesalers. I get on Monday, Wednesday, I just say, hey, you got anything new? Hey Guy. Anything new? I literally sit down there, I go to a breakfast place for coffee and I just start texting people. Yeah,

00:20:50 that’s a great system. So who are you calling or mailing to?

00:20:56 Um, no, we do it all. We hit the foreclosure list, we get the a probate list. We hit everybody that bought prior to 2000. I mean seamless everybody else or hit.

00:21:10 Yeah, pretty much. That’s the same list I’m heading, that’s for sure. So again, going back to my story earlier about asthma, so I went to Nigeria and like, man, these guys are charging 80 percent. How do they get away with it? This is, this is, you know, it feels like murder, right? Um, but on the flip side of that was like, boy, I would love to be in position to be able to lend 18 percent someday. So you missed that boat. I did miss that. Boat is a, is gonna be very tough to

00:21:35 today. All right. I do know some lenders that are 18, but they’re getting zero down.

00:21:39 Yeah. Yeah. So do you feel, I mean, I guess your actions probably speak already answered this question, but do you feel hard? Money is still where it’s at.

00:21:48 You know, it’s, the margins are obviously a lot thinner. I think lending in other states, you got a better opportunity, like you said about North Carolina. Fourteen and two points. I mean, if that rolls every six months, you’re really, it’s like 18 plus, right? Right. Because two points will turn into four points in a six month timeframe. Right? Yep. Um, so, but, you know, what I did learn, um, from a seven downturn is we got hurt more in the other areas that we were lending in and doing business in than we did in Phoenix. Even though sometimes phoenix to the hardest hit. But we understood it, we lent better at it. Um, so I, I’ve just staying here, why do you think he took a bigger punch in the gut outside of Arizona? Because we’re using salespeople that made, maybe didn’t understand the market as well as we understand the phoenix market.

00:22:43 Okay. Um, and so let’s say, let’s just say today, you know what, Chris, I like what you’re doing. I’m going to compete against you on become a hard money lender. What are the things I need to do?

00:22:56 Um, well, do you need to get some cash? Right? So finally guy with a big giant check book and make sure he trusts you. Um, you know, we roughly have $30, million dollars and it’s probably made up of about five to six people that trust me. Um, you know, in the downturn, you know, I went when I lost all that money and went negative about a million and a half. I spent from [inaudible] eight till about 2015 meeting all my friends and family back that million and a half. Didn’t file bankruptcy, didn’t pay them a dime worth of interest, but I paid them all back, so that’s awesome. I got a lot of people that will give me their checkbook, but. So, you know, that’s the first step. And then, you know, if you can go from there and get bank lines and all that kind of stuff because they’re actually coming, but they want to see, you know, years in the business and all that fun stuff.

00:23:50 Yeah, it makes sense. They want them to do this, some decent due diligence. Right. Um, okay. So, uh, I saw a presentation only say year and a half, maybe even two years ago now you and Andy and you guys had this program. You guys are rolling out Rei ground school. Yeah. Tell me about that. So, uh, it’s just basically a, a local educator. Um, obviously we got plenty of national educators. A lot of them just live here. They all live here in Phoenix, Phoenix, Scottsdale. Yeah. So, uh, we went with a more of a local program because Andy and I both have been born and raised in real estate in this market. So it’s more of a hands on training for guys that want to learn the business from not a national educator, more of a, you know, a guy in Phoenix that understands the market. So, um, it went really well.

00:24:43 Uh, but you know, all the big guys come in fortune builders and you know, and they spend just bunches and bunches of money to get it. I can’t get on facebook or instagram without seeing an ad. Right. Former bureau. Yeah. Right. I mean, and they’re here every week and I’m in between. I think there’s, you know, five to six big companies, fortune builders. So I don’t know who’s behind that one. Yeah, it’s cody. Yup. Because Dean Kiyosaki. Yeah, just nuts over here. Yeah. And you and they’re here every week and you go up against their fortune builders got like a $400,000,000 spend on facebook. My spend was like 40,000. They’re spending are not. Sorry. Yeah, 40,000. They’re spending $40, million or 4 million I think. Is there a budget? Like it’s ridiculous. Right. You know. And so, you know, it was a, it was a great opportunity. I’m actually, you know, was fun to actually give back and educate people and see them make money.

00:25:49 Um, we had some students absolutely crush it. Just awesome. Crush it like this one guy made and he’s 62 and he made like 200 grand in six months. That’s awesome. So watching that was, was pretty fun. And um, but just the economics of it just like wholesaling hard money. Everybody’s an educator now. Yeah. So then you’ve got, am I hearing that? It’s winding down. We are going to do another class in January. Um, but we’ve gone to a different marketing strategy that I’m not going to disclose, but okay. Because I think it’s a little different. Um, and won’t cost us as much money to do so therefore we can do it. We don’t have to have this huge giant venue we can still give back to the people that are really interested but don’t have to put, you know, when you have, when you spent $40,000 in marketing and a hotel venue and then you got your salespeople. I mean, you’ve got to break 100 grand, even make money and that doesn’t seem fun and I want to get back to where it’s fun and just people that want to learn about the phoenix market and how to be a 62 year old guy and make 200 grand in six months. I want that guy. Right? I don’t want to compete with all these, you know, big guys.

00:27:02 Oh No, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, that’s, that’s one of the things that, you know, I would love one day to build it, to be able to do that. But man, there are so many people doing it and it’s hard for a new wholesaler to know who’s real and who’s not. Right. I mean, how can they.

00:27:16 Yeah. I mean, you go to, um, I actually am buddies with a coach on the phone and he’s, he’s a wholesaler in town, but I mean, they go to these mass meetings and they pay their money and they’re talking to somebody across the country that’s getting paid whatever, 70, 75 bucks an hour to teach them how to wholesale. You know, all the students had joined my program, got a Thursday morning meeting with me from nine to 10:00 and I’m like, okay, what’d you do last week? Why didn’t you do it?

00:27:53 You know, don’t make excuses. Personal interaction. Yeah. And it’s custom for who you’re working with. Yeah. It’s not just a whole room full of people. Uh, okay. So looking at your profile, you know, we do have, how do you ever research, and I would say it looks like you’re a family man, right?

00:28:11 Yeah. So tell me about that. I got three kids. I’m pretty much all in college so they moved on, but uh, definitely growing the business with three kids. I uh, unfortunately, you know, divorce happens and uh, had the three kids all in sports. So I basically was a show for, I’m sure plenty of people know what that’s like. You just drive here, drive there, drive there, right? Um, but yeah, I just built a business and raise kids, didn’t do much dating at all for a long time. Just uh, just focused on them. But it was, it was great. My son played football and basketball and my two girls playing volleyball. I got to watch sports all the time.

00:28:53 So how did you balance work and family? Because that’s the struggle we all have in real estate. Right. And you are doing massive volume. You weren’t just joe blow wholesaler like you were in many people’s eyes. The guy in Phoenix. Well texting is, it’s

00:29:11 definitely helped, right? Because that’s, you can do it from anywhere. But uh, no, I just, I’d go into the office, I do my foreclosure stuff back, you know, I’m, and I’d show for my kids. I pick my kids up for, they went to a Christian school, so no bus system, um, every morning at 7:00 AM. Took them to northwest Christian. They both went down, went through northwest Christian and then, you know, did my foreclosure stuff and I was, drove my houses wholesale and then I was back by their neck of the woods at like 4:00 going to football practice or volleyball practice or basketball practice. And that’s, that was the program for a long, long time.

00:29:48 So it sounds like the mobile office on your phone. Yeah, he, yeah, but you don’t have to take many phone calls, you don’t have to.

00:29:56 Obviously most of us text way more than we take calls. Right. Um, but yeah, it’s few calls I texted all the time. Obviously, you know, the, the laptops or the IPADS obviously helped a lot too. Um, and that’s, you know, that lets me do real estate from anywhere. So that’s what’s awesome.

00:30:17 Okay. Um, and then I, I see lots of pictures of you and the water, right? I don’t know which boat is yours. Which one’s not yours, but I see lots of boats, so let’s talk about that.

00:30:28 So, uh, yeah, I’ve been boating for a long time. I’m a licensed captain. I’m also a licensed pilot, but uh, um, my boat is in the Bahamas. That’s awesome. Yeah. I need to vacation together. Yeah, anytime. I’m actually going to spend a, one of my bucket list items. I’m going to spend seven days on a boat in Greece. I’m opening from today. Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. Cool. I’m going to do the islands of core few in the southern islands out there, but yeah, I tried to get on a boat sometime, like four to six weeks a year. Um, and I’m, I’m always available. He still texts me and still email me. I’ll answer. But uh, I mean that’s why I do real estate. Right, right. I’m not going to go buy an expensive car. For me it’s all about life experiences. It’s not about like tangible.

00:31:17 Thanks. So, so you said four to six weeks, so it means four times. Four to six times a year or 46 total weeks.

00:31:22 Four to six times a year. I try to get to. So I’ve been to the Bahamas three times this year. Um, I’ve been to key west. Um, I’m going to go to Greece. I got the Bvi set up for November was the BBA British Virgin Islands.

00:31:37 Ah, Gotcha. I’m not a well traveled person, so that’s cool. It’s good to know. Good to know. Friends have boats too, I think they say, but ownership’s not so great. But having friends with boats, that’s. Yeah, it’s awesome. Yeah, let me deal with it. Right. Okay. So we already talked about nurturing, so what are some crm tools or systems that you could not live without in your business?

00:31:57 So I, I’m a dinosaur, right. I’m still just using like eye contact to send out the email blast. I don’t. Yeah, I don’t even have a text blast. I don’t know. I’m actually working on setting it up. I, I’ll have one probably in the next 30 days, but literally finding deals and you know, is the network of agents that I deal with and literally texting the wholesalers over coffee two or three times a week. Yeah. And I literally just used the same phrase so I can search on my phone and just pull up the list and start texting him. That’s awesome. Uh, okay. Any interesting war stories? I’m interesting. War. Yeah. I mean, uh, there’s, I mean, which kind of, you’re looking for

00:32:49 a nightmare scenarios. I mean not like the trial level, but far worse.

00:32:55 I’m far worse. Uh, obviously a post-sale bk is no fun. Um, I did, uh, bought a house at Auction and so they, they were trying to save it, so they became after the house was paid for. So now you’ve got to get, now you got to get the state released on the bk just before you can start the eviction. Worst thing that can happen to you at a trustee sale. Um,

00:33:23 so they filed a bk to stop the foreclosure,

00:33:26 but they, but they artist the window, we missed the window and we’d already paid for it. Okay. So that doesn’t happen very often. I’m a hard money story. That’s, you know, granddaughter forged grandma signature on a hard money loan that we did, um, that took about. So house is sold to another wholesaler, you know, she’s evicting grandma. Grandma didn’t sell the house. Um, we lent the money on it, so now we’re tied up on.

00:33:55 Wow. Yeah. So she sold her grandmother’s house without talking to grandma.

00:34:02 So that was also. Should have covered that. Yeah. But it doesn’t cover the interest. Does it go with the interest? Right. So if you’re a hard money lender and you’re paying your buddy, one of your five to six guys that has money with you and you want his money back,

00:34:18 right, you pay him right course. Find a way to pay it. So, you know, I forgot to ask this earlier. So, uh, you get five or six guys, you know, the pooling their funds together. Did you create a sentence

00:34:29 occasion to make that happen? So all individual deeds of trust, all individually, these are trust. Yeah. So I do a credit facility, um, document which says, Hey, you’re going to lend me $2,000,000 and then I avoid, I assigned individual deeds of trust. Do approximately that number. I mean, I might actually have $2,050,000 assigned to you even though you only have $2,000,000 with me. Right? Um, but yeah, it’s all individual. Um, I could have done a syndication, but there’s been some bad syndications that have happened in this town.

00:35:03 Yeah. Yeah. I’ll just leave it at that. Yeah. A buddy of mine basically said that, yeah, you want to end up on American greed started syndication.

00:35:11 Yeah. So, um, I’ve uh, in the downturn, you know, it’s, you know, I’ve had some buddies lose a decent amount of money in syndications. I’ve had other people that I know loose money and syndications, and so this is a way for me to raise money and say, you don’t have to worry about that. I’m going to assign you an individual deeds of trust. If I get hit by a truck tomorrow, here’s your portfolio, here’s the spreadsheet. As soon as I get your, I assign them to you. Um, you know, I’m a licensed mortgage bankers, so that’s a difference. So just a little education as a licensed mortgage banker, you allowed to obviously take fees like you are a broker, but as a banker, you’re allowed to take a spread as a broker, you’re not allowed to take a spread. Oh, okay. Um, and then if you start and if you’re not licensed at all and you’re taking a spread, then you’re actually take, you’re basically taking a fraction of a note that isn’t your note. So it’s technically a securities violation. So jail time times what I’m hearing. So that’s just kind of the breakdown. So as being a banker, you’re allowed to take a spread and take fees and that’s why we’re a licensed mortgage banker.

00:36:18 So walk me through this because everyone sells syndication as a great resource. You know, you go to one of these real estate seminars and they’re like, oh, you gotta start, it’s an occasion, you just need 30. Okay to get started, blah, blah blah. But everyone I’ve talked to you in the real world, so this is a nightmare. Why is it so bad compared to what they sell you at the seminars? Well,

00:36:39 the 30 grand for this indication is just to get basically the lawyer’s fees done, right? Right. And now you gotta go raise the money. Typically they want you to have some of your own money in the, in the syndication, but then you gotta go, go raise it. And I mean, it’s way easier now than it used to be because of crowd funding. Right? Right. Um, and you can actually do, um, and I’m not a securities attorney at all. So, um, but you just got to go raise the money, right? Um, and you can actually do a little email blasts now saying, hey, I’m, I’m looking to raise money. That’s actually with the new crowdfunding laws allowed. It’s allowed. No. Yeah, that’s allowed. No. Wow. Okay. Before you actually had to have a relationship and stuff like that. So, um, it’s a little easier now, but you know, it’s not something that I’ve ever wanted to do just because it’s kind of my selling tool. Like you have your portfolio, it’s yours. If something goes bad with my company, something goes bad with me. Here it is, right? You don’t need an auditor to come down, break it up. Here’s your 20 loans, you know, you had $2,000,000 with me. Maybe it’s only one point nine, $8 million, but it’s, it’s all there. You own it. I assigned it to you. It’s more paperwork then obviously a guy with a pbm or a syndication, but I don’t know all the guys that give me money like it. So yeah.

00:38:07 And I think it’s cleaner if there’s ever a situation, like you said, anything happens to Chris. Chris gets hit by a bus, right? Paperwork’s there. You don’t need to receive her to come through. Nope. Break it all up. And then just so you guys know, the ones that are listening, I receivership or an eye receivership, a syndication is when a bunch of people who put money together to create a security is fine. A lot of you go to these real estate seminars, a lot of guys promote this, but you know, they’re also making money when they sell it. Generally the, the attorney, right, right. They want the 30 grand put it together for you. It sounds really sexy. Yeah. Uh, alright. So pace has a question. Um, what do you see as the future of wholesaling? Um, I mean you’ll see like in three years, five years, so things are gonna be the same way they are, they are today

00:38:50 be even more competitive. Right? I mean the younger kids are just getting better and smarter, right? Yeah. I’m a dinosaur, but I just, I just rely on the network and you know, I’m doing some things to change that. But um, you know, this is probably the most competitive market there is. I mean, if you look at, so when I go to a collective genius and look at the numbers from all the other big wholesalers throughout the country, I think the last time I did a letter, the response rate was a like point zero, zero one, five percent. I mean, every parent’s nutritious. Yeah. I mean not even a 10th of a percent or, and where, you know, a lot of guys in collective genius, there’s like, oh yeah, the yellow letters or two point two percent and two point eight percent. And I’m like, and to be in your market, right? Um, so it’s just going to be more and more competitive. It always seems like this is the breeding ground for every technology piece. I mean, look, you’ve got opendoor offer pad, you know, they just zillow, right? They just keep coming. Now you get to what’s the new $3,000 listing service that just came in from Utah? They just showed up like, and they’ve got billboards. It’s 1500 and 30,000. I was at 1500, I just saw their billboard. I don’t even remember their name, but yeah.

00:40:09 So, um, and I think the, I can’t remember, someone shared with me, it was a Sean Terry Webinar and he was going through his number, it’s like you were talking about is like, well, you know, we do 100 this or we can get 20 of this and blah blah blah, and we walked into the house and we offer them this and they beat us up to this and he was saying like, you know, we try to get to like eighty cents on a dollar and like the people on the, on, on the Webinar were like laughing and you could hear them laughing like, what do you mean eighty cents on a dollar? Right, right. Like we gave him like 55, sixty cents on a dollar. Yeah. But, you know, good thing about Sean,

00:40:45 you got a big enough network that he can sell that. Right, right. So, um, yeah, I mean he’s, I’m sure is networks bigger than mine. So, um, yeah, it’s just, it’s just market, right,

00:40:55 right. So it’s just crazy, crazy market, um, who pays more. But another great question, who do you look up to?

00:41:02 Who I look up to, um, you know, I, uh, I kinda had some guys, they looked up into this industry, but they’re, they’re all gone. I hate to say that I’m, I’m like the old guy, um, you know, actually look secretly like look at some of the younger guys and all the stuff they do and like, man, I need a guy to get on my game or I need to get out. Um, so um, all the technology that’s coming on board that, I mean I don’t even a text blast for my wholesale. I should be shot by now. Right. So, um, it’s funny that I’m actually sometimes looking up, not looking at younger kids are, you know, doing, doing my business better and uh, needing to go that I need to, I need to get better at it. I did close 21 house package in August, so luckily the reputation helps. But um,

00:41:57 so they can change the technology and I’m not saying that’s not, we’re not going to discount that. Obviously they can, you know, use different tools, whatever, but they still have their relationship in the room

00:42:05 mutation. Right, right. Yeah. So that’s where you get a huge lego. Yeah. And I, and I continued to, you know, I was at a networking event, you know, there was a vip networking event. I got an invitation, right. And I don’t ever turn down an invitation now. I think it was on a Monday, Tuesday night. I’m there. I am. And I, I actually, uh, you know, I ran into some old friends and I mean, I, I was there at five and I was still there at 10 or 10:30, you know, working through that because, you know, you run into people and you never know. You should see how many deals I make from the Phoenix Open because you run into people you haven’t seen in a year, really. You read, you reconnect with them and then they’re back on the text message like, Hey, what do you got? So, so I think in addition to building with, you need to hang out with you at the open as well. Got to go to the open.

00:42:59 All right. Uh, and then, uh, Gustavo placeres wants to know who, who do you look at as your mentor?

00:43:06 Um, no I don’t, I don’t know. Um, or are you in any coaching programs? You know, I, uh, I just belonged to collective genius. It’s weird because, you know, I’ve only been in collective genius for two or three years. There are a couple of monsters out there. Yeah. Brad Chandler, I don’t know if anybody knows who he is. He’s a monster. He’s a machine. Um, I kinda gave up like the, you know, the big dreams of, you know, having, you know, the big, the Ferrari or the Lamborghini or any of that stuff. That’s, that’s not me. I drive an f 1:50. I’m really. Yeah. I drive a truck and uh, you know, I just, you know, good family guys. I look up to people in the community, people that are given back, those are the guys I look up to because they’re working hard and they’re doing more for the community. Okay,

00:44:05 cool. Brad Pickett wants to know about your story, but you’re both thinking. Of course he does. Uh, and then, uh, pay says that he’s happy to show you how to do a text blast if you’ll take them to the Bahamas with you.

00:44:19 Um, so the boat story, um, um, I literally saw I had a boat in the Bahamas is a private boat. I’m cruising across. I needed to get some maintenance, was taking it to fort. I did about 80 miles on a Tuesday with another guy in the business as a Steve Peterson. Some of you guys may know, I may not know. Um, and we stopped at the west end and then we’re driving from the West End to our Fort Lauderdale or 21 miles off the coast of the Bahamas or cruise in it. Eight and a half knots. And I looked down, do an eight and a half nuts. Well my boat should do nine and a half knots and I’m just like, oh, something’s wrong. So I run downstairs.

00:45:07 It has a high water alarm. Next thing I know, but over the diesel’s you can’t hear it. So. And open up the engine, hatch it, knee high in water. Um, so I run upstairs, shut down the engine that’s taken on the water. Now no more water’s coming in. All three bilge pumps are running. Um, I went that Wednesday because it was supposed to be glass out there. I was supposed to go on Saturday, but it called for, you know, six to eight foot seas. Well, there was 30 knots a wind out of the east. Um, I’m on a boat that has a bunch of water in it and it’s not floating right. And 30 knots of wind and the ocean can create swells over time. Yeah. So from time of problem to getting picked up out of a dinghy by another fishing boat, coast guard, helicopter overtop was 42 minutes.

00:46:01 It’s not horrible. So needless to say, I, uh, got a trip back to the bottom as the guy picked us up, said, hey, we’re going back to the Bahamas. Not like someone picks you up in the middle of the ocean. You get a choice of where you’re going. Right. So, uh, he took us back to the Bahamas. I even forgot my flip flops. Everything went down with a boat. I’m in trunks and a tank top and no shoes and uh, found some size eight was best that I could find, whereas a size eight and flew back home insurance cover at all. Um, yeah, after about three depositions for me, I think a couple for Steve and about eight months or nine months I finally got, got my check. So I bet you’re not using the insurance company again. I just think they think that we went out into the middle of the ocean to get some insurance money.

00:46:54 Like really? Do you think I want to go out in the middle of the ocean and risk a bunch of lies for some insurance money. But yeah, just it was a painful or deal. But uh, I guess, you know, if you have a safety plan, at least it’s nice to know it works. Yeah. Uh, Brian’s apolis wants to know when you guys go and golf and again, um, let’s go golfing. I’m not very good as well. So Chris, yeah. Chris has anytime. So a paste wants to know besides wholesaling, what are your other longterm investment strategies? Obviously everybody does. Rentals. Are they a lot of people who jumped into reynolds? Right. I think, uh, obviously rentals probably don’t pencil in Phoenix as well as I do probably in other markets now. Right? Um, you know, my investments strategy has always been, you know, I’m taking a spread on hard money, you know, I’m paying, you know, like I said, I don’t, I don’t have cheap money. I’m paying in, you know, private guys, so they want 10. I’m lending at 12 or 14 and um, you know, making my spread there. So, um, you know, I’ve dabbled outside of um, real estate a little bit and I don’t seem to do as well, so I’ve just really kind of stayed focused on what I know.

00:48:08 Do you try the, you know, the Burger model, was it by repair Rehab, was it by Rehab refinance I camera, but you know, you buy cash out, is that might be another one or do you have, um, you know, a buy and hold like every three that I wholesale buy a property, any of those things

00:48:28 I don’t, I really just focused on the hard money and I’m, I’m a wholesaler. Heart, I don’t rehab anything if I, the only time I’m rehabbing and listing is cause I can’t wholesale it, you know, obviously like I said on my commitments to buy, you know, I told grandma and buying her house, I can’t leave grandma high and dry, so if I don’t wholesale it, I keep it in every now and then I’m like, you know, I’m trying to wholesale it and I don’t make as much as I would, but I’m even to the point like if it’s a two or three grand loss, I’ll wholesale it. I’ll just move it. Just be done with it. Yeah. That’s my. And you know, even that one I had lost 10 or 11 grand on a. just move it. Yeah. So I’m, I’m a wholesale, but every now and then I’m like, ah, do I lose seven on this one? No, I saw, obviously I bought it for that price. So I saw the vision there that maybe everybody else can’t see. So I’d give it a shot.

00:49:23 Um, and then do you use any of your own capital when Elaine, are you always use?

00:49:29 No, some of it’s mine, but, uh, mostly it’s other people’s, my, my current money is in building spec homes in Paradise Valley. Um, but I got to go and currently, and that’ll probably be my last two just because white being a two point $1,000,000 house when there’s a little uncertainty. Right.

00:49:54 So we’ll talk about that. A little uncertainty. What, what uncertainty are you sending, sensing?

00:49:58 Um, well, you’ve seen a, obviously there’s been some articles about some of the super hot market, Seattle, Portland, California. I’ll take in all slowing down. I think if any wholesaler didn’t say they saw a blip in June and July, they’d be not telling you the truth because definitely. I mean, maybe they didn’t see it as much as I did, but it was tough to wholesale a house in June, July. Now August has been better. Um, you know, the start of September it has been better. Um, and then you talk to, you know, I always go to people that understand the business. So I just called title companies, right, right. Oh, they see it, they know it. So I called a couple title officers and uh, they’re like in June and July I closed 90 percent of my book. That was their response and I’m, and I’m not entitled, so I didn’t know what that meant, but, uh, I’m like, explain that to me.

00:50:54 Well, that means they closed, you know, the June and July escrows. They didn’t have any opens so they didn’t have any of their pipeline coming back in. So that was kind of telling. I’ve reached back out to them since and things seemed back to normal. But, uh, obviously it’s a cycle. Sooner or later it changes. Um, you know, stock markets had a 10, 11 year run, right? Real estate’s going on a 10 year run. Um, you know, it’s nice about Arizona market now is everybody has equity, right? The last time nobody had equity go to b of a and hey, I want 105 percent on my house sign right here with your three day, right of rescission and you’ve got a high, 100, five percent of your house, um, with not a lot of people given seconds. Everybody has equity. So, but if you, if the market slows because of uncertainty, alls it takes is a $300,000 house and having a comp. But you have a guy that bought in 2010 for 150 on that $300,000 house and he wants to drop the to 70 because he wants to move only handful of those politics. Yeah.

00:52:12 Um, okay. So what was going to ask thing it. Oh, you, you were mentioning that a lot of wholesale has noticed a blip. It was harder to wholesale in June or July. When you say it was harder, was it harder to acquire a harder to move?

00:52:27 There was just nobody buying are not as many people buying. Definitely. So, you know, I uh, but is that, is that a bad sign? I look at that as a good sign. No. Yeah, it’s, it was, you know, you don’t have as many motivated homeowners. Yeah. Well I was, you know, trying to keep 20 a month. You got to keep buying. Right. So we’ll sell against that. But for a market. Yeah. So I had bought, I had my schedule and I thought I was gonna have a great June and you know, I’ve committed to buy some. I think I definitely from one guy that I buy from my last $21,000 just because I’ve committed to buy and I sold them and they’re just, the buyers were gone, but I’ve committed to pay for it so you know. No, but I mean, you know, the real estate market as a whole is great.

00:53:15 I mean I think last time I checked there 16,000 active listings and that’s active, that’s mobile third everything, right? Nevertheless I’m an even not a buyers market amount of seller’s markets, like $32,000. So you’re half inventory of like a flat market. So I’m builders, you know, used to pump out 60,000 permits a year. I think there they’re like 20, 21, something like that right now. So obviously, you know, our market is very healthy. I’m just, you know, obviously uncertainty and there’s always the herd mentality, right? People kind of start going that way. The masses follow

00:53:54 well sort of that self fulfilling prophecy right? If everyone says the sky is falling, the sky’s going to fall. Right? Right. And are at least in our business. Uh, so then paste wants to know if you got guys lending to you at 10, is that 10 all the time? Only time.

00:54:06 It depends on what they sign up for. Some people like to keep their cash, you know, maybe it’s a guy. I got one guy, a couple of guys that are apartment guys, right. And they don’t want to commit. If I, if you, if it’s 10 all the time I make you say I want a year, 18 month, two year commitment. If you just want to be liquid then it’s kind of as you have money type of deal. So I got a couple of guys that are apartment guys and they don’t know when their next opportunity is to grab an apartment and you know, they do apartments in other states too, so they’ve put money in and then as it pays off they just kinda balanced or sheet. Whereas other guys are like, here, I want you to take this $5 million and just keep it both the. Send me the check and tell me if there’s a problem. Okay, nice.

00:54:51 Uh, so Ernie paths wants to know, have you had

00:54:54 any partnerships go south? Um, you know, I’ve only been into partnerships in my 18, 19 years, you know, and uh, I mean that one broke up because of the, you know, to sell 2007 downturn. We were actually under contract for $44, million dollars to sell our company. Um, and next thing you know, downturn happens. Citibank who’s buying US cancels. Um, and when there’s no money left, it’s not hard to say, oh, we’ve been in business for five or six years, do I still like, you know, we just saw, just went our own ways. It was nothing. I mean there’s just like, hey, let’s go try something new. So, you know, my partners are now family and he can’t break up a family. All right. So yeah, and another partnership, that’s, that’s the only two. That one was, that one was done in the downturn. And then, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been partners with Kim and Tim, my family since then. Okay. Um,

00:55:59 and I see, so hey, you know, we, we’re, we’re betting on this earlier and I noticed that you’re really good looking at a comment. Greg wants to know why you’re so handsome because that same bold head is he has, uh, let’s see. Anything else? Uh, so gus wants to be a nationwide are local. We already talked about your local. Yeah, I’m just a local guy. All right. So, uh, what is your biggest struggle right now?

00:56:22 Obviously everybody’s biggest struggles finding deals, right? Um, so, you know, that’s why you said the Guy Krystle texts me every week or every other week. Yeah. He’s like, it’s like clockwork. So I, uh, you know, just keep going after it just like everybody else does. Um, I don’t have the technology that some of the younger guys do, but I just use the network and I keep and I keep trying to expand the network. So.

00:56:50 Okay. Uh, and what is your superpower? Superpower? I do like all the marvel movies though. They’re pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I enjoy all of them too. And then we’ve got the DC ones. They’re not quiet. Same Level. Uh, what lesson would you want to teach today’s young real estate entrepreneurs?

00:57:08 Um, you know, it’s just Kinda, you just can’t give up. Like, I mean, it can’t be easy in this market being as competitive it is, but I don’t know. You just can’t give up. You can’t, can’t stop trying. I mean, I think I attended my first trustee sale. I’m in late September or maybe early October. I bought my first trustee sale in December. That means I went down there every single day for three months. And didn’t buy a house. You’re bidding? Yeah, but I didn’t buy a house. First House I bought was one, one six, one one north thunderbird road. I still know the address. Sun City about an age restricted property.

00:57:52 Your Dad on tidal? What’d you do about that?

00:57:53 No, I just, I borrowed hard money at 18 percent. Paid a thousand dollar fee. I know. Yeah. I started this business with a home equity line of credit of 60 hand. Wow. No money. Just a home equity line of credit. So

00:58:05 where did you feel like you experienced the good old boys network starting in 1999. Oh yeah.

00:58:11 So when we did it was a good old boy network for sure. You should have seen, I mean the games people play back then.

00:58:17 Yeah. So talk about that because we’ve always heard about the good old boys network, but I never got to experiencing. So what, what, what was, what was that like?

00:58:25 I was, there were a couple of guys that control this entire market and you know, back then to buy a house at trustee sale was a thousand dollars cash and we’re all walking around with, you know, $70,000 in our pocket. But um, you know, guys that are buying 10 to 15 houses a day to lose a thousand, 2000 bucks cash to keep a guy like me out of it. That’s nothing because they’re going to wholesale 10 to $15,000 are 10 to 15 houses that, you know, three to four grand. Um, yeah. So they would bid up and then that by just to keep you out of it. So here’s, so you new at the trustee sale, right, and there’s three or four of them at the trustee sale. I still think there are three or four of them because they didn’t trust each other, but that’s just my own thing. But there’s three or four of them at the trustee sale and house opens at 100 grand, right? Yeah. Someone bids 100, 1000, then you bid 100,000, then someone else jumps in and bid zero to 150,000. He doesn’t pay a thousand bucks. You’re at 1:49 nine. It’s your first sale. You’re anxious. You look at it, trust. He calls you back and says you want the house? You’re like, got a little aggressive there. That’s my first time. You know, you don’t buy it. You think it’s it?

00:59:46 The guy that bid 100,000 or 100 bucks. Oh, it goes back to them for 49,000 hours less. Oh, pretty good game. Yeah. I mean when it’s only a thousand dollars cash, you can play all kinds of games, especially if you know, there was definitely some stuff. I mean,

01:00:04 well, I knew they beat each other up or bid. You have to keep you out. Yeah, it was, I didn’t, I didn’t. I didn’t really understand that dynamic. And so it’s very interesting like a history lesson, right? Yeah. And I, I’ve, I’ve talked to a couple of guys saying, you know, hey, I’m thinking of expanding down to Tucson and say good luck down there. There’s good old boys network down there. It’s like, I don’t even know what that means. Surprise still exists, but.

01:00:23 Well obviously, um, you know, you got guys that go to the auction every day and you’re new and they make deals. Um, or they’re, they, they’re making deals frequently, you know, obviously that’s why the 10,000 are big check came in to keep it out. The reason what it was. Yeah. To keep that little. Oh, I can, I mean, you can lose a thousand dollars. No big deal. You lose $10,000 a bigger deal, right? Yeah. So, um, you got guys buying 10 to 15 houses a day. They’re not worried about a thousand dollars to keep you out of the auction. Right.

01:00:57 Okay. And what is the greatest lesson you’ve learned in your real estate career?

01:01:04 I’m probably never sign a personal guarantee. Yeah, I mean, got it. You know, not the first person on the show to say that. Yeah. So obviously I didn’t have a personal guarantee, you know, and I didn’t have a personal guarantee with some of the friends and family, but friends, friends and family. Right. That’s a guarantee. Yeah. So

01:01:24 yeah. Okay. Uh, what was your favorite best or most interesting failure?

01:01:31 Um, pro. I mean, obviously when you lose four and a half million bucks or you know, that’s, I mean, that’s the worst one you can have. I mean, nothing, nothing has happened that bad since then. You know, I’ve probably lost, I’ll ask. My biggest loss is $26,000 to date since the 2007. Um, and that was a, a fraud based house. So, I mean, I couldn’t do anything about that. No you can’t. That’s the granddaughter one. Yeah. Crazy. So,

01:02:08 uh, is there a book that you’ve given more than any other?

01:02:12 Um, this is one of those questions is really bad for me. I am. So I was successful, um, because I’m a numbers guy. Yeah. I’m, I was, I graduated with Grand Canyon with a double major in math, computer science. Okay. Um, it took me three times to pass my English entrance exam in the Grand Canyon. Give you an idea how much I read. Right. So I’m a numbers guy. I’m a math guy. I do not read books.

01:02:39 Okay, that’s fair enough. So, um, and is there anything that keeps you up at night? Yeah, I mean,

01:02:45 um, no, obviously we all have our stresses when things go bad, it can be the simplest one that just like I’m thinking about, it might be a house that I’m trying to wholesale and um, I thought we thought it was a home run. So I, I committed to it and it’s not selling. I don’t like no one likes mistakes. Right, right. So the smallest mistake, even if it’s only like, you know, a $10,000 loss, it’s still just, it’s bins, you know, I’m like, oh, I got to face my partners on this one and I don’t. Obviously no one likes to be not successful. Yeah. Well, $10,000 mistake is still a pretty serious mistake. I mean, but if you’re doing 20 houses a month, you know, it’s, I mean, it’s,

01:03:34 it washes out the law of averages. Um, okay. So maximum is wants to know what keeps you going on the wholesaling side?

01:03:43 No, what else am I going to do? I can spend four to six weeks a year on a boat and probably my biggest complaint from all my friends is I’m always on my phone, texting, you know, like Chris be be here when I’m working. I don’t know when the next text is going to come across. It’s going to make me five to seven grand. So, but, uh, three kids in college, you know, that’s not cheap. No, no. So, uh, obviously in, in the college doesn’t stop. You should the tech, the text blast come in, Hey dad, can you move to a hundred bucks a day? I can give you 300 bucks a day, you know,

01:04:22 well I got three kids, they’re going to be going to college. So how much do I need to wholesale a month to be able to afford that?

01:04:29 Well, I’ve been, uh, I’m currently, I don’t know, somewhere about, I think you have a 12 grand for tuition a year. I think Asu is 11. Um, the third is just entering junior college, so that’s a little cheaper, but I mean I had, they all went to northwest Christian so I’ve been used to this

01:04:49 for a long time, so just got to keep performing. Yeah, just gotTa keep going. Very cool. Uh, let’s see. Paste wants to know if you had a time machine, what saved your life would you go back to and what will you tell that version of himself? Go back to. Oh, seven and liquidate. Liquidate. Yup. That’s it on the rest of my life. Well, I think that’s a good place to end it. So if someone wants to get ahold of you, what’s the best way for them to get ahold of you? Either email or text message. Do you want to put your air now? It’s your cell phone here. Yeah, it’s six. Oh, two, two, nine, two, eight. One six. Awesome. And again, guys, if you liked the show, please share this episode right now and then tomorrow night we’ve got our monthly meetup, Genova, Dallas is going to be presenting our. We’re going to be at mcfate brewing from 4:30 to 6:30 tomorrow night, so please be sure to attend. We’ve love to meet you. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. Appreciate it. That was awesome.