Video Replay of Interview with Lizy Hoeffer
Podcast Replay of Interview with Lizy Hoeffer
Transcription of Show:
Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us today for today’s episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today we have Lizy Hoeffer, the queen of mortgages in Arizona. She’s here to talk about how she went from fired to over 100 million in sale’s volume. If this is your first time tuning in, I’m Steve Trang, broker owner of Stunning Homes Realty, co-founder of the OfferFast app, and I help people become real estate entrepreneurs. If you’re excited for today’s show give me some thumbs up, give me some hearts.
Steve: Before we get started, I started this show because I want to give back to our community. I know that I’ve struggled when I got started. I’m pretty sure you’ve had some struggles in your business. We want to shortcut that struggle for as many young leaders as possible. All right? I don’t charge a dime for this show, I don’t make any money doing this. All I ask is that you get value out of the show. Please tell a friend, either share this episode, tag your friend below, or tell them your best takeaway from this episode. Don’t forget, also this is a live show, so please post your questions and Lizy will be happy to answer them for you.
Lizy: So happy.
Steve: You ready?
Lizy: Yeah, let’s go.
Steve: All right. The first question is, what got you into mortgages?
Lizy: It’s not a very sexy answer. I was in college and I found myself in a position where I wasn’t going to be able to continue if I didn’t figure out how to make money fast, so I got out the newspaper, because that’s where you found jobs at that time, and I looked for the highest paying job, and it happened to be as a receptionist at a mortgage company. That’s what got me started.
Steve: Okay. What were some of the early struggles you faced in that role?
Lizy: I mean, I transitioned a lot. The good thing is that I’ve had a lot of opportunity to discover a variety of different roles within mortgages, so I started as a receptionist, I lasted in that position a month and a half before I decided that I wanted to be a dialer. Then, I was a dialer for multiple years and then became a processor.
Steve: Dialer, as in inbound inquiries or …
Lizy: Real estate agents would call those ISAs.
Lizy: I was an ISA. Then I worked a lot as a processor. Then, in 2008 the market crashed, and I was a highly paid processor, and I found myself being laid off, and replaced by our receptionist. It was just a really interesting time. When I got-
Lizy: Into mortgages it was very traditional. Lots of FHA, VA, and then it turned into this whole stated no income, no assets. I saw the boom, I saw when interest rates were in the high sixes, sevens, and then they lowered all the way to five. I got to see a whole lot of different things happen and I saw a lot of people who never really took home ownership seriously. I remember the reaction that my parents gave when I said I was working for a mortgage company and they were like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe it. You’re working for a mortgage company,” and thought it was so prestigious. Then to actually see the people behind the scenes were kind of Wolf of Wall Street. I mean, and I’m being kind. I mean, I think every meeting was at the strip club.
Steve: It was a different time.
Lizy: Different time for sure. It was just really interesting coming from operations. Then, by the time I was going to be a loan officer, I was only 25 years old. At 25, you find yourself in a predicament where the people that you know aren’t necessarily in a position to buy a home, especially in the worst economic downturn that our parents and even … We had ever seen.
Lizy: They just weren’t in a position, so I had to learn to be really scrappy. I was really lucky. I did fail a lot at first. I lived off of a $10 weekly budget for food and everything.
Lizy: Yeah. Was lots of Ramen Noodle recipes. My mom actually paid for me to go to a Brian Buffini seminar, which kicked off my whole career, and how to work with a database, and love on your sphere, and what to do. It was the foundation for everything I did for many, many years after and I credit a lot of all the success I had to that one $500 seminar.
Steve: Wow, really? See, I had no idea that you guys started with Brian Buffini. It makes sense looking at your business. That was one of the first coaching programs I went through as well. I wish I’d took it as well as you did. All right. You’re at Buffini and you started building your database. Then, what’d you do after that?
Lizy: Building a database was really tough. He talked about starting a farm, and doing door knocking, and then meeting people, right? His big thing was the last thing you should be doing is doing the [inaudible 00:04:35] activities and really focus on your sphere. But at the time, my sphere wasn’t really strong, so I ended up having to focus on networking, and doing [inaudible 00:04:43] activities. I figured, I’m like, “I didn’t want to get mugged or kidnapped,” so I started my first farm at the Arrowhead Mall and I worked the small business owners like nobody else. I went there every single day, sat at the [Muddle Home 00:04:58] kiosk for multiple years, every Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Steve: You were sitting in the kiosk? You’re the one that’s harassing people when they’re walking by.
Lizy: 100%. Then, I brought everyone coffee, so like the-
Steve: Oh, that’s cool.
Lizy: Security agents, the puppet shop, the perfume ladies, the everyone I could meet. I just wanted to do my mayor campaign in an area that was air conditioned and safe.
Steve: Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense. What year was that?
Lizy: That was 2008 to probably 2011.
Lizy: I did that for a long time. A lot of people will give me pushback on starting things, like farming, or door knocking, or even meeting business people.
Lizy: I just think about if I had to start over again, I’d probably do something similar.
Steve: Well, it was effective. That’s actually how we met, not through the mall, but you came over to my office. We’re at ListerPros, a baseline in Mill, and my old office is … I can hit it with a baseball from here. You had stopped by, it was a pop by, so it was Brian Buffini, and he came by with the Seven Levels of Communication, dropped it off, and we had a great meeting. Then, that’s how you planted that seed.
Steve: Clearly, it worked.
Lizy: Well, and it took six years of followup, right?
Lizy: Because the first time I met you, I was very unqualified to be your partner, right?
Steve: Well, I was also probably not a great partner at that time. Okay, so why do you think you’re so determined and passionate in your role as a loan officer?
Lizy: That’s a really loaded question, because I think it’s not just being a loan officer. I think I’m just passionate in general about things.
Lizy: I think it’s just because my entire life I’ve just had to be really scrappy and I’ve been really fortunate to understand the things that motivate me. I have a lot of dysfunctions, I have a lot of brokenness about my life, and those things have always been really clear to me. I grew up in a family that was up and down financially. There were like two times in my life where the school bus pulled up to my house and the electricity guy was shutting the lights off. I remember those-
Lizy: Things were really, “That’s never going to happen to me when I get older.” I just, I have an interesting relationship with my mom too. She was a big driver for me for a really long time and I was like, “I’m just never going to ask for help.” In my family, everybody’s been traditional government jobs, engineers. They’re all very, very smart. I’m actually probably the dumbest one of all of us, which serves me well, because I didn’t go into engineering and I went into relationship making. I just didn’t want to fail. I didn’t want to be the one that just didn’t make it, so I’ve always been really scrappy and understood that your dysfunctions, even though they’re the things that make us the most ashamed and the most embarrassed, are also the things that are the greatest motivators.
Steve: Okay. Then, we had talked about before about finding your why. How did you go through and find your why?
Lizy: Finding a why is really hard, because most of the time when people talk about a why, they talk about saving the starving kids in the third world country, or they talk about their family and their kids, and all those things. While everyone, I believe, truly does want to help people, I think that our greatest motivators are always the things that have personally impacted us the most. That’s the one thing that I think I’ve always been really gifted in, is I really understand what motivates me, what brings out the biggest emotions, and I think that if you’re a person who’s trying to look for your why, I think you need to figure out, well one, “Why did I decide to do what I’m doing?” You’re going to give yourself some superficial answer like, “I don’t want a boss, or I want a flexible schedule.”
Steve: Right, right. If everything works out just fine, we’ll have that flexible schedule.
Lizy: Yes. If you start thinking there and you’re like, “Well, why is that important to me?” Then you start going into like, “I really hate when people tell me what to do.” Then you’re like, “Well, why? Why do you hate when people tell you … ” Then it turns out that you had some sort of thing that happened to you and you never felt like you had control in your life. Once you hit on it, the second that you feel embarrassed or emotional, that’s your why.
Lizy: Right. If you can’t say it out loud, that’s what it is. Just being really, really connected to that has been my super power, I guess.
Steve: Oh no, that’s cool. Well, that’s going to be one of the next questions, is what do you consider to be your super power? Do you want to elaborate on that, or do you want to move on?
Lizy: Well, I think that is the super power, right? Really figuring out what my why is, but then I also can bring it out in people, right?
Lizy: Just keep asking the right questions. I mean, if you’ve met with me, it’s not uncommon to cry the first time.
Lizy: Not cry because I’ve hurt you, but cry because we’ve got somewhere real very fast.
Lizy: I think that’s the beautiful part of any kind of relationships, is that you’re having a relationship with someone you trust, someone that you know that cares, and then someone that you know can really bring out the best in you.
Steve: Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Going back to the title of the show, from fired to 100 million. Let’s start with the fired. Let’s talk about that story.
Lizy: Lots of dysfunction in my life. I have a very … If you’re familiar with the DISC test, I have a super high eye, and then my secondary characteristic is a high C. I am inclined to please people, but I also need it to be perfect and systematized.
Steve: Right. Highly abnormal characteristic, or combination.
Lizy: Which makes it really tough for me to be successful in my job, because I’m a very emotional perfectionist. I had a business partner and I wanted to be independent. Unfortunately, we had a really colorful toxic relationship and it just wasn’t going very well. I was emotional and just not great to be around. When you’re not great to be around, and super emotional, and I never really showed my worth. I always wanted to be the one behind the scenes. I just look like the troublemaker, so I got fired from my job, and rightfully so because I just didn’t … Was not meeting any of their core values. But it was the best thing that happened to me, because it forced me to then rediscover my why. Why was I being so emotional?
Lizy: It got me to realize that I just don’t like letting people down and I don’t like being in a system that lets people down. It was such a beautiful thing for me to be able to transform, and create, and build something new. I read this book, Delivering Happiness, which is ultimately why you and I ended up reconnecting.
Lizy: It just changed my entire trajectory of life, where I was going, what I wanted to do with customers, what I wanted to provide, and who I wanted to be. It got me onto the wow process that people know us for and just being that person that provided value, versus what I got. I got fired and then immediately started getting to work. I’m really scrappy, and I don’t let people tell me I’m going to fail, so one of the most powerful things that was said to me during that meeting was that, they thought that I was a weak link between me and my old business partner.
Steve: As in, you were dragging …
Lizy: I was dragging them down.
Lizy: I know. But you know what? I think that perception is reality and I did not obviously show my value at all, but it was those words that hung with me the entire time, and so every single time I wanted to give up, I was like, “Hell no, I’m not going to be the weak link.”
Lizy: I never wanted to go down in history as the girl who got fired, and was a disaster, and sued them, and was horrible, and just ended up being exactly what they fired her for.
Lizy: I really did a whole lot of introspection. I got into coaching. I really submitted at that time and was like, “You tell me what to do.” Then, I went to therapy. Let’s see, what else? I read a lot of books. I took a lot of leadership stuff. I mean, I just really was focused on changing the negative things about me and then using just a … I mean, if you’ve ever been fired in your life, and everyone has been fired at least one time. It’s quite possibly the most humbling experience of your whole entire life.
Steve: Yeah. I’m not everything I thought I was.
Lizy: It took me down to my core, but allowed me to build something even better in its place.
Steve: You said something that was interesting. You said that your core values didn’t line up with their core values, but we’ve done business together for over two years now, and I think our core values line up very well. Do you feel like you had different core values then, or what was the clash between yours and theirs?
Lizy: Well, okay. Core values is tricky, because you can have core values when it comes to customers, and you can have core values for the culture you’re building in your business. You and I have the exact same client customer care goals, right?
Lizy: Client first every single time.
Lizy: But at the time, I just didn’t know how to communicate needs, right? Instead of communicating needs, I would complain without solutions, and I would get angry, and not just like a level five angry, it was mostly like a level nine or 10 angry. You just can’t be that person in a culture, in an environment. It’s super funny, because I love Darren Hardy to death, and I feel like I was the one that introduced him to most people in my life, and he was ultimately the person that told them they should fire me.
Steve: Well, you told me, you were involved in getting him out there, and then they met with him, and they talked about whatever.
Lizy: No, they went onto take his courses later on and-
Steve: Oh, I see.
Lizy: Then it was like, he was just like, “Well, you just have to get rid of this person. She’s taking up all your time, all your emotion. She doesn’t fit in with the culture you’re looking at building.” At the time, they were looking at building a mega team, versus really running a branch, and it just … A square peg, round hole.
Lizy: I just wasn’t a really good communicator, right? Super people pleaser and perfectionist.
Lizy: It was really hard to not be the boss.
Steve: Well, you’re the boss lady now.
Lizy: Now I’m the boss.
Steve: It’s funny, you also mentioned Darren Hardy and telling him to fire people, because I’ve gone to two different ones of his events. One was Insane Productivity Life and the other was a High Performance Forum. Each time I went, he kind of said, “There’s someone on your mind right now that you need to fire.” I was like, “Okay.” I started thinking about it, and each time I went to an event I fired two people. I feel kind of bad about it, but it was the right decision for our company core values and how everything was-
Steve: Decision for our company core values and how everything was working together.
Lizy: You never know. Those things could be the pivotal changing moment in their life. Because I think about it and I’m like God, would I still be the same person today if I hand been fired, if I hadn’t been rocked to my core? I don’t think I would have been because I think true change happens when you’re in pain. Something bad happened and it makes you reevaluate and you decide at this moment in time I’m going to become a better person.
Steve: Right. Now, you’re going through this journey and introspection and obviously you’ve improved, made a lot of changes. How did you go and pick up the pieces? That’s all great for a mindset. How did you pick up the pieces logistically to get your business to where it is today?
Lizy: Having taken that back to Brian Bafeeny, so he has this thing called a confession letter. I have just been one of those people that understood that the more authentic and more vulnerable you are and just lay it out, people will help you. When I was a broke 25-year-old, I was like look, I’m a broke 25-year-old but no one is going to work harder for you, no one’s going to be more available to you. Look, I have nothing to do other than service you and being able to communicate that story has been powerful, but then when I got fired, it was the same deal. It was like guys, I became a work terrorist. I tried to make it funny. I became a work terrorist and I got fired from my job.
Lizy: I can’t believe I’ve lost my way, but I’ve never been more humble and more willing to learn and more willing to take your feedback than I am right now and I promise if you give me a second chance, I’m never going to lose your trust again. That was the message. I put it out on Facebook. I took out an ad for my long lost clients. I sent out a letter. I called everyone. I did not hide from this at all. It was literally fired on a Friday, I picked up the phone, actually I spent all Saturday crying. Then on Sunday …
Lizy: … I picked up the phone and I started calling everyone. It was crazy to see the amount of people that wanted to see me succeed and help me and because I was just willing to say it was all my fault, this is what’s wrong, I am going to change, and here’s what I need if you’re willing to help me. I did that.
Lizy: Within that weekend though, I pulled together 17 loans.
Lizy: The first month I was at Prospect, I closed 27 deals and it was literally because all of the amazing people that I have in my life were rallying behind me and my team. Also, I will tell you that logistically speaking there’s no way I could’ve done it without Kaden, and Alejandra, and Sam. It was like Jerry Maguire style. There were like okay. Well, we’re going to offer your people jobs. I was like well, we’re going so see who they want to work for. Thank God, they … I had four assistants at the time and three came with me.
Lizy: They were amazing. We all got on the phones. We literally had no laptops. They used one of my Apple. We took all our apps on the paper. We phoned everybody with our cellphones. It was crazy, but they were super committed. All we did was spend, it was like eight hours on the phone dialing. We were able to turn a business around super fast, but it was no excuses. It wasn’t like I need a logo or I need this or I need this to be successful. It was like here I used to do … I do the core training. We have a form called the lead tracker. Lead tracker keeps all your names and phone numbers and emails and I got to keep those because I’m …
Lizy: I know. I was a paper person.
Lizy: We called every single lead I had, every single referral partner I had in my phone, I took out the ads. We just got to work from the moment we got there.
Steve: What year was all this?
Lizy: That was, I think, 2013.
Lizy: It’s either been four or five years now.
Steve: Okay. From there because I think you mentioned also that you connect with everyone through Facebook as well.
Steve: How’d that play into rebuilding your database?
Lizy: I didn’t have everyone’s phone numbers, but I did try to friend everyone on Facebook. At the time, Facebook allowed you to sync your phone contacts with people on Facebook, so I did. I did the sync and then I uploaded that confession letter and then I started messaging everyone and contacting everyone and getting contact information for everyone.
Steve: Right. Well, that’s the definition of scrappy.
Lizy: It’s just like a lot of calling. There’s no replacement for calling and direct outreach. There just isn’t. No.
Steve: Well, our last guest, Brent Downey, was talking about talk to people and that’s it. Just go out there and just talk to people. Don’t do anything else. What does your organization look like today then?
Lizy: It’s really different. Imagine a room with people with just their cellphones and paper and once computer. Now, we’re located in [Biltmore 00:20:46]. I have a really beautiful space in the [Anchor 00:20:48] Center. I have 20 people that work directly for me and then I have about 40 branch employees. We’re going to close 200 million this year as a branch, which I’m super excited about.
Steve: We got to update the title.
Lizy: We’re very high tech and high touch.
Steve: Okay. Then, one of the challenges that we all have as realtors is staying in touch with the lead. How are you able to stay in such great communication and contact with the leads?
Lizy: That’s always something that we focus on and that’s a marker that I think will always never be perfect and something that you have to constantly work on all the time. I have built out Salesforce, so that things are really automated and constantly bringing things to the forefront so that we’re not having to remember it because we’re not robots and we’re humans. I read a statistic once that said that 80% of filed information is never referenced again. Yeah.
Lizy: Yeah. It’s actually in a book called When. It’s a really good read. If you’re putting all of your leads into a CRM, but you’re not in the habit of going to that CRM, that’s referenced information.
Lizy: I just make it so that there’s a ton of workflows and a ton of things that remind us to keep in touch with them.
Steve: Let’s say someone’s brand new into mortgages, what should be the first step, first two, three steps for them to get started?
Lizy: Whether you’re in mortgages or real estate or any kind of sales, the very first thing that you need to do is comprise a database. That database, I would break it down into three different people. If you’ve never had a past client, you’re going to break it up into two. But, it’s influencer, so people who have an impact within their community or their group of friends or their business and then it’s business contacts. People that you’re meeting with that they understand the networking game, they understand referrals, you scratch my back I scratch your back kind of thing. You want to get at least 150 people in there. Then from that list 150 people, you categorize the day.
Lizy: You figure out so on Mondays I call my favorite people and then on Tuesdays I do update calls and then on Wednesday I’m calling my database. If you don’t have a database, you’re calling leads. Thursday, you’re calling your hot leads, so you’re getting them in the car on Saturday or you’re going to visit with them on Friday and then Friday is business people.
Lizy: Right. I just comprise a list, figure out a daily theme, and then I would contact no less than 60 people a week and not the same people, different people.
Steve: Wow, 60.
Lizy: 60 and then figure out a good milk route. I am better in person than I am ever going to be on the phone, even though I had multiple years as an ISA. I think I’m just better in person.
Steve: Yeah. Well, I think that everyone should be able to sell better in person, so I think that’s great. I think having that phone touch is amazing. That’s way better than texts and emails and whatever people are using now and then what’s even better than a phone touch is a face to face.
Lizy: For sure.
Lizy: A milk route is typically so that mall route that I did where I would bring people coffee, that was my milk route. I’d go in to see the security guards, go in to talk to the Dillards salesladies, go in to talk to the puppet shop and the cigar shop and the timeshare people, just getting to know them. That’s where I built my first clientele.
Steve: Wow. What would consider to be some of your critical components to your success today? What are three tools that you cannot do without today?
Lizy: A database is number one and I think anybody in sales will tell you that a database is number one. Then having a structured system for followup. Because a database is a tool really and what you do with that tool is really the most important thing, but you can’t do the action without the tool.
Lizy: Right. It’s having a really good system, a database, and then I would say being able to communicate your vision within stories. Being able to connect with people by … I started a blog this year just because I used to write these really long Facebook posts and everyone was like you should just start a blog. I started a blog, but it was based on the idea that I really want to be able to share pain, but then also give you the tactics for how I solve my problem. I wrote one on how to get out of debt and I wrote one about how I became what happened to make me a receptionist to where I am today. Things I learned since I was 35 and I have a series of other ones. The way that you can communicate your why and that it provides value for their people in a story is super valuable and I think it’s the way that marketing is going nowadays.
Steve: 100%. I think that the blog that you’re doing is fantastic, but I wouldn’t have stopped putting the stories on Facebook too. I would do both.
Lizy: I do. As I’m talking about why I wrote the blog, it typically comes with a very long Facebook post, which is not as long, and it comes with cool photos.
Steve: Okay. Then, I think a lot of what you’re talking about today is going to be extremely effective for anybody in any industry. I don’t think it’s limited to mortgages. I don’t think it’s limited to real estate sales. Is there anything else you like to teach or present to all the young entrepreneurs that are trying to get into any industry?
Lizy: Yeah. I would say that most of the stuff that I learn nowadays isn’t from real estate or from mortgage professionals. I’m taking a lot of notes from the restaurant industry and I’m taking lots of notes from influencers, lots of notes from hospitality. I literally was … My property manager at the Anchor Center is somebody I’m really trying to replicate their customer service. I’ve never been happier with a landlord in my entire life.
Steve: What are some examples of things they’ve done that are blowing you away?
Lizy: They are really good at good [pop-bys 00:26:57]. Every month, they drop off something. They’re constant with their communication, letting us know what’s going on and what additional features they have, like car washes, they bring in food trucks on a weekly basis, they brought in an ice cream truck. They’re just very proactive in their communication and it’s always a one up. I have had issues, don’t get me wrong, with the office. There was a pipe that broke or the sink didn’t work and I’ve never even thought once about leaving because of how well they take care of us. I thought about that and I’m like God, I want people to rave about me the way I’m raving about my property manager.
Steve: Well, I kind of maybe want to move over there now. If I didn’t live in Chandler, maybe I’d move my office a little bit closer to you.
Lizy: Yeah. I wouldn’t rent anywhere else.
Steve: What are some of the greatest lessons you’ve learned?
Lizy: I think the biggest thing is and I’m so dumb, it was a like a Chinese proverb that I can’t remember, but I remember the gist.
Lizy: It was that if you aren’t humble, you can’t learn anything. If you think you know everything, you’re just unteachable, uncoachable. Somebody said that to me right before I got fired.
Lizy: I thought and it wasn’t like not the people firing me, it was somebody else that said they quoted the proverb and then.
Steve: It wasn’t necessarily directed at you. It was like check this out.
Lizy: I’m sure it was directed at me in a really nice way.
Lizy: Like have you ever heard this? That was one of the most impactful things and so I always really, really try to stay humble because I know that it’s not me. As team leads, we just get to take credit for everything, but there’s like 20 people that work super hard on my team that blood, sweat and tears that don’t get the credit that I do.
Lizy: Right. I know that this is not me. This is an accumulation of everything that the team does, which by the way shout-out team if you’re listening to this, I love you and couldn’t do this job without you. Always stay humble and then always want to learn.
Lizy: Things are constantly changing, this industry is never going to stay the same. We’re already in a big shift right now, in case you can’t feel it. We’re shifting. People are terrified that they’re going to lose their jobs to technology or big investors and what do we do next. It’s like these are the types of markets that build people. This is when you get the most market share, so just always be willing to learn, stay humble, and then the third thing is never lose, you got to be scrappy.
Lizy: If you aren’t scrappy, you’re dying.
Steve: Well, and I’d like to touch on that, the part about it’s changing. I think not only is it changing, but it’s going to keep changing faster. If we’re not staying on top of it, you’re only going to fall further and further behind and I think that the first part, the first lesson you mentioned about the learning and the day you stop learning is when things start falling apart, so I think that’s one of the core values that … Well, it’s the first core value for Stunning Homes is growth is that you have to be willing to learn because if you’re not willing to learn then what are we even doing. I don’t even want to hang around with you at this point because you’re not going to get better. You’re going to be stuck at this level and then go down from here.
Steve: It’s not going to be fun hanging around with you.
Lizy: I know.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. What are you learning right now?
Lizy: I’ve actually been really studying time management and not just a schedule, I’ve really dove deep into understanding the science behind our daily schedules, our cercadian rhythms, when I can be the most effective. I just think that we’re trying to improve 1% a day and in efficiencies like when are you going to be at your best in sales or when am I going to make the best decisions or when should I be having meetings. That’s really what I’m focusing in right now because I just want to hone those skills in really good because there’s only so much time in a day. In case you can’t notice, I’m about to pop out my third [inaudible 00:31:00].
Lizy: I got to figure how to do the same amount of work in a shorter amount of time.
Steve: Right. Right now, I think you mentioned When was the book.
Steve: Right now, that’s your favorite book when it comes to time management or what?
Lizy: I read a couple books. When, I thought was the most interesting because it was a totally different perspective on time management. It was like really a bunch of science, which I kind of geek out on that stuff. Then, I’m co-reading this book called The Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes. The book was recommended to me more times than any other book has ever been recommended to me and I couldn’t read it because the name is so cheesy, sorry Chet Holmes, but it’s a brilliant … Well, still, sorry Chet Holmes. The book is brilliant.
Steve: Yeah, the book’s amazing.
Lizy: Yeah. I feel like the title is misleading. Well, I guess you could become the ultimate sales machine, but it’s really on management, time management, productivity. The book is really, really smart.
Steve: It has a lot of really good.
Lizy: I mean, the book is really, really smart.
Steve: There’s a lot of really good content in just one book.
Lizy: In a chapter, too, right?
Lizy: I was like three chapters in and I was like, “This is the best book I’ve ever read.”
Lizy: So that book and then I’m trying to think of what other one I was thinking of, but it slipped my mind.
Lizy: It obviously wasn’t my favorite book.
Steve: So how has failure shaped your life?
Lizy: I think that failure is the only thing that has really shaped my life. Up until this point I’ve had … I think the coolest thing about where I’m at today is I just have failed so many times. I think that just learning from those failures and getting better and better each time is big, but the fact that I fail a lot means I also win a lot.
Lizy: One of the coolest things that Darren Hardy ever said to me in a group of people was that the pendulum can never swing in just one direction. You can never just fail.
Lizy: You’ll succeed just as many times so long as you continue to try.
Lizy: It’s always just been beautiful for me. That was one of my favorite blog posts was I was like I just don’t believe that there’s any real failure out there.
Lizy: Because the worst thing that happens is you just learned something super important that will change your life and make things better for the future so long as you’re humble enough to accept the lesson.
Steve: Well, and I think it’s not just the failing, right? There’s a lot of people that will try something and they fail and it’s like well, I tried and it was over. I think what you said was that the failure and then the introspection and what did I learn from it? I want to add to that you want to fail as fast as you can as many times as you can because the more you fail, the better you’re going to get.
Lizy: Yeah. It’s really hard for me to fail fast, though, because I am a high C personality. I really have to think about all of the steps and all the measureables and all the things.
Lizy: So I fail kind of slowly.
Lizy: But when I fail, it’s really big so I do learn.
Steve: Everyone knows about it. Okay. What have you read that everyone should read? I know we’ve already mentioned a few books already, but what book have you read that’s been super impactful?
Lizy: I’ve read a couple books that have been super impactful. Oh, the other book that I was thinking of that I forgot was Getting Things Done by David Allen.
Steve: I’ve heard amazing things about that one.
Lizy: Yeah. That book really was also really amazing. The most impactful book I would say to read, if you were only going to read one business book, is The Compound Effect. That’s why I fell so in love with Darren Hardy. I was like, oh my God, this guy totally gets it. I would read that book religiously every single year. It’s actually inspired by a book called Slight Edge, too, so both those books are really huge. It just talks about all the little things that you do on a daily basis, like the one little action means nothing, but then over the course of time that little action compounds to mean something. So that book I thought was huge. I think if you’re just beginning in sales and real estate or mortgages you should read The Seven Levels Or Mr. Shmooze, I think. And then if you’re really looking to build a business, Delivering Happiness I think was a total game changer for me.
Steve: Yeah. That’s a must read for my team.
Steve: There’s a lot of books that I love but Delivering Happiness is a must read because if you want to understand our company culture you have to love this book. Okay. And then what have you done that everybody should do?
Lizy: What have I done that everybody should do? I think getting coaching is something that everybody should do. I think that there’s something to be said for accountability and having to tell people out loud if you’ve actually done the thing that you said you were going to. That moves the needle. It’s kind of like confession. There’s lots of people who don’t really believe in it, but when you’ve really got to tell someone who’s going to judge you on the other side, at least for me, it’s very impactful. But it also gives you a different perspective on business. I’ve never had people who understood what I did in my circle. Everyone, they look at real estate agents or they look at loan officers and they’re like, “Oh, yeah, your job looks so fun.”
Steve: And easy.
Lizy: “You just golf and sleep all the time.”
Steve: And make big checks.
Lizy: Yeah. I know, right? It’s like I haven’t had a good sleep in a long time. Yeah. So I just feel like having other people that could relate to me and that I could talk about employee struggles or talk about how to overcome objections in my industry, I think it’s so super crucial and when you don’t have that kind of ability to bounce off those ideas I think you’re just kind of stuck.
Lizy: I think they said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
Lizy: Well, coaching helps you not be insane.
Steve: Is there any particular coaching program that you would endorse at the moment?
Lizy: There’s so many. There’s multiple ways to skin a cat. For me, the CORE has been super life changing. They’re the reason that my business, so my business has grown, so when I was a top producer and got fired, I did 167 loans that year.
Steve: That’s pretty good.
Lizy: Yeah, it’s really good. No, no, no.
Steve: You got fired doing 167 loans?
Lizy: I did. You have to be a real big, you know, to get fired. But the next year, being coached by the CORE, I did 238 loans.
Lizy: Then 412, then 539 and then 634, and then this year we’re going to close 800.
Lizy: Right? So that kind of momentum and training, it happens because you’re being trained, not because I just figured it out myself. It’s because I had really good guidance and people that were constantly holding me accountable. If it’s one thing that you can do for your business it’s get coached sooner.
Steve: I think that, you probably don’t want to plug this so I’ll plug it for you, is that you coach real estate agents, too, to help them build up their business.
Lizy: Yeah. I coach loan officers and real estate agents, yeah.
Steve: And then another thing that you didn’t touch on is that you also run a mastermind.
Lizy: I do.
Steve: So you want to talk about masterminding?
Lizy: Yeah. I think that the more … So, you’re the sum total of the five people … I really feel like I’m just regurgitating a bunch of good quotes, of the five people that you hang out with the most. I think that you always want to be the dumbest person in every room. Masterminding is kind of what that makes me, right? I get the best people in my industry together to share ideas and what’s beautiful about masterminding, if you find the right people who are willing to give and they’re not of a scarcity mindset, you can come up with some of the coolest, neatest ideas or you can find out that the idea that you thought was so super amazing someone’s tried 12 different times and this is how they failed at it and it maybe not is such a great, brilliant idea. It’s just crazy to see how all these brilliant people do their job and how different all of them are and how they execute. It’s super amazing.
Steve: So let me take the time now to apologize for all those times I’ve shut you down in masterminds.
Lizy: Not such a good idea.
Steve: Why do you think some of the people fail when they get into mortgages?
Lizy: I think people fail for a variety of reasons, but I think that people fail because of fear, bottom line. It’s like they’re afraid of asking people for business, they’re afraid of looking needy, they’re afraid of coming off as a salesperson, they’re afraid of doing the activities, they’re afraid of getting rejected. They’re just like failure to launch. I think that’s the biggest thing and this is what’s hard. You are a salesperson.
Steve: Embrace it.
Lizy: Yes, but if you’re only out for what’s in it for you, you should be afraid.
Lizy: Right? Because who wants to work with a show me the money guy? Everyone’s rooting for Jerry Maguire. No one really likes that guy.
Lizy: Right? So you just want to be the person who’s like, “How can I provide you value?” And realize that if you’re not doing it, what is preventing you from doing it and then write that list out and tackle step one, step two, step three, step four. You can’t be failure to do something. This is one of those industries that will chew you up and spit you out.
Lizy: It’s like you’ll feel amazing one minute and then get an angry text the next minute and feel like you suck. There’s nothing for it. You’ve got to have really thick skin but you also have to be willing to accept that you are not perfect and learn how to say a really good, “I’m sorry.” And everything will work out.
Steve: That’s really good, writing out all the reasons why you don’t want to do it or you can’t do it or whatever and solving each one, one by one. That’s brilliant. That’s the first time I’ve heard that.
Lizy: That’s how I coach my team members.
Steve: Is it?
Steve: That’s awesome.
Lizy: Or just in general. This is actually really good scripting. If somebody doesn’t want to do something, you’re like, “Okay, so I know you don’t want to do this. You’re probably never going to do this, but if you did do this, what would have to happen to make that happen?” Then they tell you and you’re like, “So, if I make all this happen, then you’ll say yes?”
Lizy: And then they can’t say no, because they’ve just told you why. But then you’re removing obstacles. If you’re the boss, that’s your job, right? You want them to do something, they don’t want to do it, find out why and fix it.
Steve: I think there’s two things that have been really helpful for me with my business that I learned from you. One of them is the Wow program. Can we talk about the Wow program?
Lizy: Yeah. The Wow program I came up with after Delivering Happiness, so this was my version of that. It was how do I show people how much they mean to me?
Lizy: Right? Because that’s the one thing that I’ve always struggled with because I am a total people pleaser at heart. I just never want people to think that I took more than I ever gave and I wanted them to know that their life meant something to me outside of their mortgage transaction. So I started paying attention to their life events and started paying attention to things that were important to them. Birthdays, I mean, birthdays has been a really big thing. If you know me or follow me you know I’m a good sprinkles cupcake girl, so just making people feel loved and special. There’s a book called The Five Love Languages and it talks about all the universal love languages, but gifts is pretty much either on the top or right in the middle for most people.
Lizy: So the Wow program is just centered around honoring all the people that are special in my life and making sure that they know that they’re special to me and not just because of their home loan.
Steve: Yeah. And another thing was the referral script on the Tuesday calls. You want to go through that real quick?
Lizy: Yeah. One of our value adds is that we are going to, because I know that most real estate agents are scared of asking for referrals and they don’t want to ask unless they’ve done a perfect job. So one of the things that my team does is ask for referrals for them. So every Tuesday we give an update for their home loan and we ask them a series of questions. We ask them on a scale of one to 10 if we have met their needs and if they give us anything less than an eight, we will not ask for a referral, just so you know. But then the next question will be what would it take to get to a 10? Or if it’s a 10, why is that a 10 so I can go report back to my team and make sure that we keep doing this? Then is there anything else I can do for you? Are you sure there’s nothing else I can do for you? I want to make sure we’re doing everything we can for you. So if there is nothing else, it would mean a lot to me if you knew of anybody that was looking to buy or sell in the last week if you would give them our information. Do you know of anyone?
Steve: That’s powerful. In fact, I actually have that printed and we call it the [Caden 00:43:48] script.
Lizy: It is the Caden script.
Steve: I give it to my people and I say when you’re talking and when you’re updating them, use this script. So the question is hey, we didn’t get that many referrals this week. Did you use the Caden script?
Lizy: You know, it’s crazy because I think you just have to ask. But you cannot ask unless you’re really trying to go above and beyond.
Steve: Right. So a random question here. On a scale of one to 10, how weird are you?
Lizy: Yeah. I mean, people who know me probably say more than 10. I mean, I’m just, I don’t know. I’m like so many things in one.
Steve: All right. Thank you so much for being on the show. If someone wanted to get a hold of you, what is the best way to do that?
Lizy: The best way to get a hold of me is contacting me through our website, which is lizyhoeffer.com. So l-i-z-y-h-o-e-double f as in Frank, e-r.com. You can call me on my team line, which is 480-818-6222.
Steve: Perfect. And again, if you guys liked the show, please share this episode right now. We are going to be here next Wednesday at 2:00 p.m. We’ve got Kevin Kauffman, a real, living rock star. Last year his team sold 552 houses for just shy of 150 million in sales volume. Be sure to visit our website, realestatedisruptors.com to find out more about our upcoming events. We did have a happy hour last night. It was great. We had some amazing knowledge being shared, so if you want to find out more about the next event, please do check out there. And again, thank you very much for being here.
Lizy: Thank you guys. I appreciate it.